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Synit or Blackhole or others?


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#1 cirdec

cirdec

Posted 25 April 2012 - 11:19 AM

need advise on a 200 or 250 (PE2-4 or 3-6) blank.

I'm a 125lb guy(from Asia) who loves fast butterfly jigging. Going to arm this future rod with Stella 8000 couple with Nature Boys RPS 16000 spool, 60lbs JerryBrown.
Guess with my feather weight, I can only handle close to 20lbs(maybe 30?) of drag. So the rod need to be forgiving in the bent and able to handle any surprise monster.

Have tried a Synit Venom 250 before and quite love the bent, but it feels like the jigging bent is on the front 2/5. And upon hookup, it bents to a full parabolic.

Also have tried a Tenryu Zigzam, which bent to a full parabolic (flex in the 1/2 section of the body). Which feels so much better(and relax) for long duration butterfly jigging.

Now, what about Blackhole Cape Cod Special 250? Does it bent to a full parabolic during jigging on a 200/300g jig?

So, should I go for Synit DS250, Kaha 200, or CapeCod Special 250?
Or any other recommendation?

#2 johndtuttle

johndtuttle

Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:05 PM

BH is full parabolic.

There is no question to me that full parabolic reduces the most stress on the angler once hooked up. The question becomes whether that is more important to you than how the rod fishes a jig. You cannot be fully parabolic and have a light tip unless you are using like a 150gm rod.

the 2/5 rods can have softer tips for a given rating which some people like, you have to decide which is more important to you.

My only complaint about the BH is how it moves a jig (a little wooden) but once hooked up it is a dream. The 250gm just dominates smaller models yet has the nuts for 150lb tuna. If you fish it "long stroke" style ( 2 cranks for every rod lift) it fishes and catches great.

Edited by johndtuttle, 25 April 2012 - 12:08 PM.


#3 SynitUsa

SynitUsa

Posted 25 April 2012 - 01:06 PM

Synit deepshot is more parabolic then the venom, a ds200 may be what you are looking for.... I'll try to post a bend pic later on!

#4 cirdec

cirdec

Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:41 PM

BH is full parabolic.

There is no question to me that full parabolic reduces the most stress on the angler once hooked up. The question becomes whether that is more important to you than how the rod fishes a jig. You cannot be fully parabolic and have a light tip unless you are using like a 150gm rod.

the 2/5 rods can have softer tips for a given rating which some people like, you have to decide which is more important to you.

My only complaint about the BH is how it moves a jig (a little wooden) but once hooked up it is a dream. The 250gm just dominates smaller models yet has the nuts for 150lb tuna. If you fish it "long stroke" style ( 2 cranks for every rod lift) it fishes and catches great.


you are right, its not easy to compromise the jigging flex for a loaded flex. But Jigzam is one of those that feels full parabolic during jigging & loaded. Just that it is pretty doubtful if hooked something beyond 150~200lbs.

Are you saying BH is stiff on jigs?

Fast Pelagics only chase short fast jigging, which is my fav style! :cool:

Synit deepshot is more parabolic then the venom, a ds200 may be what you are looking for.... I'll try to post a bend pic later on!


is it a video during jigging? Or a loaded pic or video?

http://synitusa.com/...t_Shopping.html is down. DS200 blank or rod in stock?

#5 Frogfish

Frogfish

Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:44 PM

Synit every day...

#6 johndtuttle

johndtuttle

Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:34 PM

you are right, its not easy to compromise the jigging flex for a loaded flex. But Jigzam is one of those that feels full parabolic during jigging & loaded. Just that it is pretty doubtful if hooked something beyond 150~200lbs.

Are you saying BH is stiff on jigs?

Fast Pelagics only chase short fast jigging, which is my fav style! :cool:


yes, their full parabolic nature makes a soft tip impossible for their jig rating. But they are beautiful once you are hooked up on a big fish.

It's tough to fish with a "whippy" rhythm but that does not mean they don't catch fish. You just have to adjust to what the rod gives you.

Edited by johndtuttle, 25 April 2012 - 10:37 PM.


#7 cirdec

cirdec

Posted 26 April 2012 - 12:56 AM

sound so different from the BH Seafork I have, which is front 2/5 whippy even with 100g, and can load up quite well to (say) 100 lbs. Which I didnt like

#8 SynitUsa

SynitUsa

Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:29 PM

Sorry Cirdec, I didn't see you replied to me... I'll post up a load picture tonight! Sorry about that

#9 silky23

silky23

Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:20 PM

Cirdec, what size type/ size fish are you targeting? that may also help. The DS 200 is a pretty sweet blank as far as full parabolic goes, the BH 250 responds exactly the way John described.

#10 SynitUsa

SynitUsa

Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:00 PM

Ds200 Bent on a Mekong Catfish
Posted Image

End result 60kg Mekong
Posted Image

#11 SynitUsa

SynitUsa

Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:06 PM

a few more...

Posted Image


Posted Image

#12 cirdec

cirdec

Posted 27 April 2012 - 11:16 PM

I have no doubts in Synit & BH Cape Cod being loaded.
More curious in the bent of both during jigging. Any kind soul got video on both?

#13 cirdec

cirdec

Posted 28 April 2012 - 04:15 AM

Ds200 Bent on a Mekong Catfish
Posted Image


Is that Bungsamrum, Bangkok? Scary way of fishing the Thais have. By using rods over 350 or PE8, they are landing 100-180lbs red tail or mekong catfish within 5-10 mins. Yes, all brute force, locked drag. The war ridden fishes there are so use to the abuse they simply pop up to the surface and let the angler pull them back for a photo shoot.

#14 DenisB

DenisB

Posted 29 April 2012 - 03:12 AM

the deeper your rod bends when jigging two things happen
- the less distance your jig moves in each jerk
- the slower the acceleration & deceleration of the jig at the start & finish of each jerk.
The velocity cadence of the jig is very different to your movement.
this suits some jig designs & not others.
It particularly does not suit long narrow jigs that need velocity thru the water & rapid acceleration to optimise their action.
It also means that fish have more time to get a good look at your jig at low velocities to see what it really is.
Some might think thats a better opportunity for the fish to get aim to 'nail' it............I suggest thats not the dynamic at play that improves strike rate.
..........typically a lure thats moving at low velocity needs more action to achieve a high strike rate.

anglers tend to compensate with longer faster jigging stroke in this situation & you are putting more effort into moving the rod than moving the jig, compared to (say) , a rod with 2/5 deflection in the jig stroke..........

FWIW

#15 Inspiro

Inspiro

Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:16 AM

the deeper your rod bends when jigging two things happen
- the less distance your jig moves in each jerk
- the slower the acceleration & deceleration of the jig at the start & finish of each jerk.
The velocity cadence of the jig is very different to your movement.
this suits some jig designs & not others.
It particularly does not suit long narrow jigs that need velocity thru the water & rapid acceleration to optimise their action.
It also means that fish have more time to get a good look at your jig at low velocities to see what it really is.
Some might think thats a better opportunity for the fish to get aim to 'nail' it............I suggest thats not the dynamic at play that improves strike rate.
..........typically a lure thats moving at low velocity needs more action to achieve a high strike rate.

anglers tend to compensate with longer faster jigging stroke in this situation & you are putting more effort into moving the rod than moving the jig, compared to (say) , a rod with 2/5 deflection in the jig stroke..........

FWIW


To me, this is new and worth thinking about

#16 Kia Kaha

Kia Kaha

Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:13 PM

What Denis has pointed out is spot on... the entire Synit line of Jigging rods/blanks from the Venom, DeepShot, Kaha, and the (2014) Kaha RaZaR have been designed so the tip section forward of the 5th guide on a GenIII Acid wrap works the jigs while the mid section provides the lift or power leaving the butt section from the reel seat down to lock up under full load... We commonly measure the hurt factor ratio put on the angler when we design the blanks especially for the bigger rods over 250g. It's a balancing act between being parabolic enough to be angler friendly and powerful enough to provide the angler with power and lift to shift the fish, not to be confused with strength which is what the rod will handle weight wise before it breaks. You can make a blank to have enormous strength.. but it will bend over and touch your toes with no lifting power what so ever



the deeper your rod bends when jigging two things happen
- the less distance your jig moves in each jerk
- the slower the acceleration & deceleration of the jig at the start & finish of each jerk.
The velocity cadence of the jig is very different to your movement.
this suits some jig designs & not others.
It particularly does not suit long narrow jigs that need velocity thru the water & rapid acceleration to optimise their action.
It also means that fish have more time to get a good look at your jig at low velocities to see what it really is.
Some might think thats a better opportunity for the fish to get aim to 'nail' it............I suggest thats not the dynamic at play that improves strike rate.
..........typically a lure thats moving at low velocity needs more action to achieve a high strike rate.

anglers tend to compensate with longer faster jigging stroke in this situation & you are putting more effort into moving the rod than moving the jig, compared to (say) , a rod with 2/5 deflection in the jig stroke..........

FWIW



#17 SeaGreen

SeaGreen

Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:52 PM

Great thread.
@Denis are you suggesting the 'wooden' action described in the black hole 250 increases the acceleration /deceleration and distance if used with a slim jig vs. A rod with a softer tip? Technically giving it more action?

#18 SeaGreen

SeaGreen

Posted 30 April 2012 - 08:55 PM

@cirdec
What size jigs are you using? Style?

#19 cirdec

cirdec

Posted 01 May 2012 - 04:17 AM

the deeper your rod bends when jigging two things happen
- the less distance your jig moves in each jerk
- the slower the acceleration & deceleration of the jig at the start & finish of each jerk.
The velocity cadence of the jig is very different to your movement.
this suits some jig designs & not others.
It particularly does not suit long narrow jigs that need velocity thru the water & rapid acceleration to optimise their action.
It also means that fish have more time to get a good look at your jig at low velocities to see what it really is.
Some might think thats a better opportunity for the fish to get aim to 'nail' it............I suggest thats not the dynamic at play that improves strike rate.
..........typically a lure thats moving at low velocity needs more action to achieve a high strike rate.

anglers tend to compensate with longer faster jigging stroke in this situation & you are putting more effort into moving the rod than moving the jig, compared to (say) , a rod with 2/5 deflection in the jig stroke..........

FWIW

That's my questions. The deflections.
If both blanks bents at the same force, moving the jig at the same distance, one bents @ 2/5, the other bent at close to 1/2. Isn't the '1/2' is more 'easy' on the user?

Not forgetting most fish strike on jig during the 'lowering' down of the rod, which is when the jig is hovering and going on a horizontal state.
Given a same strength, soft rod will cause the jig to travel shorter distance, a hard rod will force the jig(slim) to shoot through the water, with some initial travel.
When you lower the rod, asumming winding up the same amount of slack. Jig on soft rod will not swim that 'horizontal' state, yet the jig on the hard rod will slack from the initial gain, going on the 'horizontal' state.

To further study into this, how fast the deflections of the blank, is it equal to how fast the Jigger jigs. The stroke style.

What Denis has pointed out is spot on... the entire Synit line of Jigging rods/blanks from the Venom, DeepShot, Kaha, and the (2014) Kaha RaZaR have been designed so the tip section forward of the 5th guide on a GenIII Acid wrap works the jigs while the mid section provides the lift or power leaving the butt section from the reel seat down to lock up under full load... We commonly measure the hurt factor ratio put on the angler when we design the blanks especially for the bigger rods over 250g. It's a balancing act between being parabolic enough to be angler friendly and powerful enough to provide the angler with power and lift to shift the fish, not to be confused with strength which is what the rod will handle weight wise before it breaks. You can make a blank to have enormous strength.. but it will bend over and touch your toes with no lifting power what so ever


Once the rod to a 90 degree, isn't that left to the user strength to hold his life to it? So the minimum dead lift to 90degree is the 1st point of measurement.
Next, both brand are reknown to pull up monsters. Did any broke at mid section or butt section?

@cirdec
What size jigs are you using? Style?



I'm using a not so whippy 2/5 rod, and my style is fast short jigging on 150 to 250g.

#20 SeaGreen

SeaGreen

Posted 01 May 2012 - 05:37 AM

I have a bh 250. I found the tip to be much stiffer than i an anticipated at first. I modified my style slightly, still short pitch varying speeds, and now love it. It took me about 3 outings to get completely comfortable. IMO it is a great rod for 200g jigs. That is its sweet spot IMO. 250g slim jigs (would not go higher), and 150 fat or slim jigs to get action. Ideally I wanted to also work 100g jigs with it but have found it to be too stiff to load.

Personal preference, with my style, I would rate the bh 250 for the following jig types in order:
1) 200gr slim/fat
2) 150gr fat or 250gr slim
3) 150 gr slim (might be a stretch)

Above 250 gr or with fat 250 jigs I think it drags a little. Below 150gr or 150g slim it doesn't load great. I am being very particular in this analysis. 200gr jigs all day, and it bends great on hookups, feels great. Paired with stella 8k pg w/ pe-4 dbb




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